Wedding woes as Palace blames Autumn
The rumour we mentioned earlier, that Autumn Kelly (now Phillips) was responsible for negotiating the contract which sold the Queen to a celebrity magazine, is gaining ground.
We are hearing that an unholy row has broken out in Royal circles over what has been a dismal start to Peter Phillips’s married life.
It began with the simple fact that the Kelly family could not afford to foot the £50,000 ($100,000) bill for the reception at Frogmore House. The mother of the groom, Princess Anne, refused to pick it up, as did his father, Mark Phillips.
Faced with those facts, most families would have arranged a much simpler “private” wedding with a small reception and buffet in a private house. However, Autumn decided to go for a celebrity-style pay-out and stage a big bash in magnificent Frogmore House in the grounds of Windsor Castle. The sum agreed is thought to be well above the $1m mark so far publicized.
When the first Hello! interview with the couple was published last week, the Queen was said to be mortified. The Palace launched what it called “a damage limitation excercise”. Severe restrictions were placed on who and what could be photographed, and the degree of access allowed. However, the magazine currently has the official photograph of the Queen and the couple on its website, giving the impression that they have bought the whole show. Nobody seems to know what might appear in Wednesday’s edition of the magazine.
This is a bad start to Autumn’s peripheral “Royal” career and will mark her out as “pushy” from the outset.
It is unfair to them for you to disseminate this rubbish, which I have only seen so far in the Daily Mail. You should know better than to rely on them. And BTW, the “official photograph” is also on the website of the Telegraph and the BBC. So much for a Hello! exclusive.
By Ursula on May 18th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
We had private sources for this rumour yesterday, which have since been mostly corroborated. The Mail ran with it today too.
We never rely on one newspaper source, although the Mail is much better than most for accuracy and fact-checking.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
It beggars belief that Autumn would negotiate a contract for exclusive access to her wedding without consultation and approval. It also seems impossible that the Princess Royal would “refuse” to pay for the wedding, or indeed that it wasn’t fully financed by the Queen herself. The idea that the Queen or the Household would charge the Kellys for use of Frogmore seems ludicrous. More likely, the Kellys or Autumn herself insisted on paying her share.
I have still not seen any confirmation that Hello! was paid anything for the pre-wedding interview, let alone access to the event itself. This all seems like hyper-speculation.
I believe this is the beginning of a process we have seen again and again: the cruel teardown of another Royal bride.
If Kate and Chelsy had any sense, they would bolt immediately.
By Dan on May 18th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Had not Peter Philipps inherited millions from his great-gandmother? If so, he could well afford the cost of the wedding.
By Nina on May 18th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I think it’s unfair to place the whole blame on Autumn - she was between a rock and a hard place. I know they could have had a small wedding but I wonder how well that would have been received. Unfortunately this is going to be a blot on her reputation for a long time - maybe she can pull a Wessex and lie low for a bit and then have a baby - that should redeem her. Or maybe the next royal wedding will push all this into the background.
By NCKat on May 18th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Dan, the Palace press office is confirming a lot of this stuff. I’ve heard some of it from sources in London.
Of course the Queen didn’t charge for Frogmore House, it’s the cost of the reception catering etc that’s being discussed. And the Princess Anne refusal is not dismissed. Besides, she’s notoriously frugal.
Autumn is a management consultant so would have felt confident negotiating a deal of this kind. She didn’t seem to grasp the sensibilities of Royalty and its hierarchical nature.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Poor girl. I wonder if she even knew what she was getting into. My parents couldn’t afford to spend $100k on a wedding. Autumn doesn’t come from royalty or wealth! The Queen may be appalled, but the girl - under enormous pressure - came up with a plan to make the money and have the wedding of her dreams. Who cares!? The young royals have been in the pages of Hello! for years. I would think the Queen would be more embarrassed by Harry’s antics over the years - smoking weed, stumbling drunk out of clubs, feeling up girls, wearing Nazi uniforms, etc. One issue deals with character and the other with economic status. I would think the royal family should be focused on character. I hope Autumn had a beautiful wedding and forgets about this nonsense on her honeymoon.
By eddie on May 18th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
The Daily Mail is “better than most for accuracy and fact- checking?” I think it’s a sensationalist tabloid.
The Daily telegraph says nothing about Hello, or Autumn’s alleged contract. It does say that Frogmore was “lent” (not LET) for the occasion by the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh.
Sorry John, maybe I’m being naive, but I don’t believe any of the rumours, at least not yet.
I think it was surely a beautiful occasion properly handled.
By Dan on May 18th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
If I can add one more thing (just one—as if!):
We looked forward to this event for SO long. Now it’s happened, and all we dwell on is the alleged sordid backstory.
Welcome to the Royal family, Autumn Phillips. I hope you survive the experience!
By Dan on May 18th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Dan, from here it was a disaster and left a bad taste in the mouth. Weddings should be feelgood occasions, but we can’t make them so by pretending that the facts don’t exist.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Since she appears to have sorely embarrassed the Queen and the Family, let’s hope they can survive her.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Well considering all the embarrassments in dealing with Diana, Fergie, Sophie, Camilla, et al, I’m sure they can survive this.
By NCKat on May 18th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
The Sunday Times is reporting a rumour that Hello! has also bought the Craig wedding in Kenya, which Prince William attended yesterday.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Dan, well said. Everything you say makes perfect sense. I have no idea why people would want to focus on the negative. Sad lot I suppose. Wishing Autumn and Peter all the best.
By Ela on May 18th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Why is it that the men who marry into the RF are usually quiet and unassuming, while the women almost always make huge waves.
Could it be that men understand hierarchies — like the Army — better, while women see events more in terms of webs of relationships?
In which case they would be more likely to try to reform the Monarchy than men, seeing it as top down rather than a horizontal system.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
But I’d need to write a book on that not a short comment.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
John I think the term the road of least resistance come to mind with your comment about the men & women in the Royal family. Wasnt it just the other day that you said that Royal life could be quite boring. Maybe they are just trying to find something to do
peter knows what the score is could of put his foot down @ any time. Its his family & he is aware of the pitfalls that came with the Hello deal. I think like Dan said once Prince William & Kate get engaged this will be a non event.
By jackie mccoy on May 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
one last point also Nckat had a point when she speculated that a small wedding might not have been received very well. They had already started to call Autumns family cheap.
If Pw & Kate get engaged who John will pay for that wedding?? Will the Middletons be expected to foot the bill?
By jackie mccoy on May 18th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
It was not the wedding they had to pay for, Jackie, but the £50,000 reception. The Queen covered everything else. I think the Middletons could well afford that, judging by their house.
I’m sure Kate was carefully watching and noting every move of this wedding, knowing she could be next.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
A simple wedding in Montreal would have been better. At least the Kelly’s wouldn’t have to spend on hotel and airfare!! LOL
By Marilyn on May 18th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Well, if those in charge of “handling” these things within the Royal Family didn’t learn the lessons from the previous generation’s mistakes…how important it is to provide those marrying in to the family with proper coaching of how to conduct themselves, and what’s expected of them…then lets at least hope that the husbands have learned they need to stick up for their wives, and help them along!
Hopefully for Autumn, Peter will do just that, or they will just lay low for a time & let this all pass. Other weddings (bigger deals than this one) are hopefully on the horizon, and this won’t be big news for long.
Maybe Autumn will have a baby in the next year, and all wedding nonsense will be forgotten! *smile*
By Claire on May 18th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I agree John, Kate would be very wise to take note. I can’t remember who had said to Diana wisely ‘don’t worry it’s going to get much worse”
By jackie Mccoy on May 18th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
I guess after all of this the next Royal wedding should just allow a lot of video footage and all will be happy
By dally on May 18th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
The rumours make it sound like Autumn the Terrible dragged the Royal Family through this whole process by the tail. Maybe I’m crazy, but that seems a bit of a stretch. If they are that easily plunged into chaos, then maybe they deserve the people’s derision.
In the face of it all, I choose to believe otherwise, but I am a romantic. Until she sits down with Martin Bashir, heavy with black eyeliner, to tell all, I will think the best of her.
But the teardown will continue. Next we’ll be hearing about all the weight she gained on her honeymoon, how hideous her beachwear was, the cellulite, etc., etc….
The only kvetch I have is with the hat & veil Kate wore. Rather funereal, wasn’t it? Maybe it’s symbolic that she knows the hell that lay in store for her.
As for Beatrice’s headgear—well, John, you said it best.
“No comment.”
By Dan on May 18th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Gigi, where are you in all this?!!
By Dan on May 18th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Dan, I’m no fashionista, but I too thought Kate’s hat should match the very nice jacket. But perhaps it was meant to represent her signature colours of black and white. But what would I know?
As for the Hello! sellout, it just looks like the thin end of the wedge of a footballers’ wives culture embedding into the Royal Family. Over here, Diana was associated with that, which is why she was held in low esteem in most Royal circles. Let it not happen again!
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
I’m with you Dan, as I mentioned before although Phillip has not official title he grew up within the royal family so he knows what is expected and himself his mother or father could have slammed on the breaks at any time to get them out of it if he has wished.
I think the press haven’t had anything to write about for a long time as Kate is in hiding most of the time now and PW was AWOL for at least week before they found out what was going on with him so they are looking for something to write about
Interestingly there are a lot of news websites reporting that they think the engagement for Kate and William will not be announced until the end of the year, which is a bit disappointing given that it would have made some exciting summer news but what can you do!
By jackie Mccoy on May 18th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Well, we must have been doing something right because we had fantastic traffic throughout the weekend.
I’ll be covering Kate Middleton and her prospects in a piece tomorrow. It’s not as straightforward as it seems.
By John on May 18th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
You do very well, John. The spirited and high-minded discussion that you provoke is a credit to you.
We may not always agree, but the discussion would not be as edifying if we did!
By Dan on May 18th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
As for selling simply to pay the reception bills I don’t buy it. Anne may be frugal but she would have anted-up if they wanted low key and private. The Queen would have paid because what grandma who can wouldn’t. Peter has money from the Queen Mother, and his credit is good. So if they had wanted to be responsible for the cost he and Autumn could have paid.
What I do think is that the royal family needs to put forth acceptable and highly desired substitutes for older royals who make appearances on the Queen’s behalf. Autumn doesn’t really qualify as a public draw on the surface because she is a commoner and because of the lack of a title. By putting on a show and getting the public interested the family now has the opportunity to slowly groom her and the publics acceptance of her as a “body” to attend events.
Somebody is going to have to pick up the slack as royals age.
By MexicoMom on May 18th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
I don’t think Autumn should be blamed for this. I’m sure both Autumn and Peter were aware that her parents couldn’t spring for the reception costs. They also had to pay more to travel to the wedding than most parents of the bride.
Would Peter’s inheritance from the Queen Mother have come with some kind of limits on what it could be used for? If not, I think Peter should have offered to pay for the reception himself. The scale of the reception was largely due to his royal status (even if untitled). The fact that Autumn joined the Anglican Church is evidence of the importance with which Peter holds his royal status.
We all like to keep a healthy bank account, but these days in the US the bulk of the costs of the wedding, reception, and honeymoon are often shared by the bride and groom– especially when the couple has been living together for several years, as in Peter & Autumn’s case.
I don’t for a minute believe that Autumn kept Peter in the dark about the Hello! deal. Peter could have sought advice about it from any number of people– family, courtiers, etc.
By Evelyn on May 18th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
John, I look forward to reading your article tomorrow. It sounds a little ominous though. Your insights will be interesting as usual.
I must say that you have me just a little bit curious. In regards to Autumn and the deal with Hello, I guess it is a question of balance. How do you balance a deal which will pay for the kind of reception that you want vs the public’s want and maybe right to have coverage of the wedding of a member of the royal family.
I need to buy a book on royal protocol. I do agree that her future mother-in-law should have stepped in and explained the situation. However, would it have looked proper to have a small reception with the family and a few close friends that your family could afford? Maybe, she was trying to make best of an
awkward situation.
By kat on May 18th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
John
Very much looking forward to your piece tomorrow on Kate!!! I’ll be on here first thing in the morning!!! I’m a little nervous though as it does sound a little like the deal is not as set in stone as everyone is making it out to be!! Until tomorrow!!!!
This forum is fantastic John and I love having somewhere to come that gives an honest and drama free place to discuss. Like Dan said we may not always agree with you but we love what we read!!
By jackie Mccoy on May 18th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
My dear Dan, I am back, belatedly, from our sudden and unexpected weekend away from home and playing catch-up ball regarding the Royal Wedding! Please accept my apologies for being MIA during this Royal Wedding and unavailable to serve RA Gala Royal Wedding Tea!
I have just read all the articles, seen the photographs and the comments. I think the wedding was beautiful, the bride and groom looked splendid, the bridal party looked wonderful and the Queen, as usual, was beautifully dressed in a color very becoming to her. I must say, however, that I am not pleased with the reports regarding the wedding finances. There is no possibility that Princess Anne did not know that the Kelly family could not afford to finance a wedding of the scope and splendor that is expected, in fact, mandated, by the presence of the senior members of the Royal Family. Princess Anne should have paid for the wedding and the reception and the fact that she is known to be frugal is no excuse. The biggest mistake that some members of the Royal Family make is to stand back and watch with a gimlet eye while non-Royal brides are forced to jump through hoops to prove their ‘worthiness’ to be in the Royal Circle. That is extremely bad form and unworthy of any member of the Royal Family to behave in such a way. I read one story that said that Princess Anne was so determined to pay nothing for the wedding that she approved the Hello exclusive deal. If this is true, it is even more outrageous that she is allowing Autumn to take the blame in the press. This type of behavior merely creates extra tensions and ill-feeling that should not be permitted to sully the joyous experience of a wedding.
It has long been an honored tradition that the wedding belongs to the bride’s family. The classic protocol was that the bride’s parents paid for everything except for the Rehearsal Dinner, which was the expense of the groom’s parents, and the bridal bouquet and corsages for the Mothers of the Bride and the Groom and the Groom’s gifts to his ushers and Groomsmen, and the Groom’s gift to the Bride, which were the expenses of the Groom. Nevertheless, with more modern times and inflation, the custom has developed that many weddings are equally financed by the parents of both the Bride and the Groom so that no one family must bear the entire financial burden. This expense-sharing had been the accepted custom in many parts of the USA in recent years, even in New York, where sophistocated and elegant entertaining that strictly follows traditional protocol is the normal procedure. The situation with Peter’s parents being divorced is an added factor. Captain Phillips is not wealthy and is remarried with a new family to care for. Autumn Kelly’s parents are less well off and had to bear the tremendous expense of a trip across the ocean for the wedding. Either the Queen or Princess Anne, both extremely wealthy and able to afford to give their grandson/son a lovely wedding, should have done so. Forced into a corner, Autumn found a way to finance her wedding when there was no other means available to her. To caste slurs on her now is inappropriate. For anyone within the Royal Family or their circle, including Courtiers, to criticize her for this is very unseemly behavior.
May I say that I wish for Peter and Autumn a very long life of health, happiness and wedded bliss and may every blessing be theirs as they begin their journey together! May their joys be many, may their cares be few, and may they love and care tenderly for each other for the rest of their lives.
By Gigi on May 18th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Gigi, if there could be a more graceful benediction to this cherished event, I can’t imagine it. If there is a single blemish on the occasion, it is that you were not there (as our spy!) to enhance its splendor.
Now, on to the next!
John, we’re all awaiting your post….
By Dan on May 19th, 2008 at 12:52 am
John - I can’t wait to wake up tomorrow to your piece on Kate! Hoping to go to bed early so the morning comes even quicker!
Gigi - Dan is right when he says the only thing missing this wedding weekend was you! I think it is safe to say everyone missed you terribly! Were you out cheering on your Penguins to their amazing defeat of my Flyers????
Kate must be a strong woman to attend a family event of her boyfriend while he is off with his ex girlfriend’s family… I only hope the tables don’t turn on her the minute she enters the Family.
By Blondie on May 19th, 2008 at 1:07 am
The new story in the DM says that senior members of the family “refused” to pose in pictures bought by Hello.
I feel compelled to ask, yet again, if there is any proof that a deal with Hello was ever made?? Every paper is still calling it a rumour. At every turn so far, it has been demonstrated that Hello has had no exclusive.
The DM story also says that Hello is now back-pedalling, for fear of a “backlash.” I’m sure they’ve sold a lot of copies, but I would not be surprised if the whole story of a Hello deal turned out to be hogwash, and now the courtiers and “inside sources” are covering their lies by saying that, while Autumn has sold out the Royal Family, you won’t see it in the pages of Hello.
Perhaps we have to wait for Wednesday’s edition. If I’m wrong (if I’m PROVEN wrong!) I’ll eat my….
well, I’ll eat my dinner like every other night.
By Dan on May 19th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Just one more post tonight (I promise! My dog wants to go home.)
I’ve just gone through the photos on the Telegraph website, and I think everyone looks radiant. The Queen looks divine, as she cannot help to do; Autumn is the very picture of a beautiful bride; Peter looks mature, dashing and doting; Harry looks his handsome rakish self, and then there’s Beatrice! ….Yes! Well—if you look at her whole ensemble, the hat kind of works! And maybe Selfridge’s paid her 500,000 to wear it?
No matter, I count it as a good day. Well worth the wait.
By Dan on May 19th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Gigi, I really liked your post. Everything that you said was so true. You have great insight and knowlege in the workings of the royal family. You are very wise.
I also agree with Blondie. I do believe that Kate was standing in for William. I would have loved to see her at the reception with the members of the royal family. She has to have a rapport with the RF to go to the wedding for William. I only wish that they could have been together at the wedding.
By kat on May 19th, 2008 at 1:41 am
Gigi very very well said!!!!! We definitely missed you this weekend!!!!
It’s funny because every family has it’s problems and especially at weddings. Autumn did her best and I hope that Royal men start to stand up for their wives.
I hope Kate will cope, and I hope the engagement will come to pass. I always get a little nervous that it may all fall apart again but we will see….
By jackie Mccoy on May 19th, 2008 at 2:30 am
Gigi, your post is the reason why we missed you! Your comments are always right on the mark and said very eloquently. I promise you, we are not stalkers here at RA. We just notice when our friends are missing.
If the story is true and Autumn has become the scapegoat for the Hello! debacle, then it just proves nothing has changed within the House of Windsor since the days of Diana and Fergie. Marry into the Royal family and become their doormat.
Who paid for the wedding reception when Sophie Rhys-Jones married Prince Edward in 1999? Sophie’s parents were not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination and definately could not afford the lavish wedding put on at Windsor. If the Queen paid, because Prince Edward is the son of the Monarch and protocal required the wedding to have a certain amount of pomp, that’s understandable. However, the marriage of the Queen’s grandson also requires a certain style of wedding that middle class people like the Kelly’s could never afford.
To say Princess Anne is frugal is an understatement. Cheap is more appropriate. I have read that Princess Anne has an annual, multmillion dollar, private income from the equestrian events she sponsors at Gatcombe Park. With that amount of income, Anne should have offered to pay for the entire wedding from the start. I sincerely doubt Princess Anne, the Queen and other members of the Royal family would have wanted to fly to Montreal for the wedding, where they might have had to chow down on pigs-in-the-blanket and chicken breast at the local Moose Lodge. If the Queen can spend 500,000 pounds on a fancy dress, 18th birthday party for one of her granddaughters, she can help with the cost of her grandson’s wedding.
Several posters have said they hope the Royal family has learned from the Hello! fiasco before the next Royal wedding. Unfortunately, the Royal family doesn’t seem to learn from their mistakes and they repeat them over and over.
For all the angst this wedding has caused, I hope Peter and Autumn were able to enjoy their day. From the pictures we have seen, the couple appear to be above the fray and very happy. Sophie Wessex managed to get back into the Queen’s good graces after the Sheik incident and is now one of the Queen’s favorite people. Autumn has already given up her religion so Peter could keep his place in the line of succession, so I’d say she’s made a good start at making amends to the Royal family.
By Arthur on May 19th, 2008 at 3:06 am
News of the World is reporting that Prince Harry introduced Chelsy to the Queen at Peter’s and Autumn’s wedding and after the reception at Frogmore House, Chelsy was allowd to spend the night in Harry’s suite at Windsor Castle. I’m assuming the Queen and Prince Philip also retired to Windsor Castle after the wedding, so what does this tell us, if anything, about Chelsy’s acceptance within the Royal family? John, is News of the World a reliable source for information?
By Arthur on May 19th, 2008 at 4:51 am
Gigi and Arthur-
Bravo!!! Very well stated.
P.S. Welcome back, Gigi.
By Lisa on May 19th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Thanks everyone for your stimulating and always intelligent commentary.
Just to wrap this up — before we move on — the problem was twofold: 1) the exclusion of the press and the public from what was in all but name a Royal wedding; 2) that the negotiator(s) of the contract with Hello! sold exclusive rights of access to the Queen and two areas of Windsor Castle which were not theirs to sell.
Both are unprecedented and represent a huge faux pas, possibly an illegality. Royal events have long traditions attached and someone broke them in what appears to be an underhand way. The Palace was taken aback by what happened last week and worked hard to limit the damage.
I know from my press and media contacts that almost everyone was very angry about this — although it was mostly underplayed in a very British way. Some sort of apology should be made because it ruined the whole weekend and put the Queen in an impossible position.
In general, the top tier of the media played a blinder in the circumstances. They reported what they were hearing from courtiers, officials, even members of the Royal Family.
Whether Autumn personally negotiated the deal is not proven, as far as I know, but she works in the heart of the celebrity business (Michael Parkinson’s office) and was perfectly placed to gain access. We shall see.
Now on to something else.
By John on May 19th, 2008 at 8:55 am
And one final note : Rebecca English is reporting this morning that neither the Queen nor the Duke of Edinburgh was consulted over the decision to sell the exclusive rights to the Windsor Castle ceremony and reception to a celeb magazine. The senior Royals, including the Queen and Prince Phillip refused to be photographed.
It’s all so very messy. The couple will have to try very hard to work their passage back into Grandmama’s good books.
By John on May 19th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Gigi, glad to see you back and firing on all cylinders.
It’s fascinating for me to view the different attitudes to this on both sides of the Atlantic. North Americans are clearly more comfortable with the culture (?) of celebrity and all that goes with it. To us it’s a newish intrusion deriving from the underclass. We simply can’t stand it mixed with Royalty, although some of the younger Royals have dabbled in the past.
Posh Spice and the Queen must be kept well apart for the sake of our sanity.
By John on May 19th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I probably won’t be able to express this as well as Gigi would but being an ex-pat now living in the states one thing which is very clear is America is a classless system. The working. v. middle. v. upper class tier system doesn’t exist her. It’s more of a case of the very wealthy and those who are trying to obtain the American dream. And then there are the celebrities who we are all use to being photographed over here all the time. The Bush wedding the week before Autumn’s was handled very well but the Bush’s are filthy rich so money and who was paying was not a problem.
I know you have mentioned in the past that the outdateness of the Royal family and their actions is a positive attribute for them and that maybe so, but they need to learn if they are going to continue to be outdated to take care of their own and those who are coming onboard if they can’t afford it. Someone previously mentioned on this site that the Royal familes unitity is what will keep them strong and taking care of the financial arrangement for Autumns wedding, would have made sure that none of this nonsense had ever arisen. And who did pay for Sophie Rhys Jones wedding??
Although we still have Prince William and his defection to the other wedding. I hope he is not about to slip back into his nightclubbing party prince ways. Only time will tell and I hope it is not going to end in tears for Kate. Otherwise the Prince William may well get his wish and not be married till he is well over 30 and end up looking like Prince Albert (still not married at 50) and no one (not even you John) would want that
By Jackie Mccoy on May 19th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Princess Grace told Diana, Princess of Wales not to worry it would get worse….(Before she got married)
By Lady Ann on May 19th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Well said, Jackie! Also, many thanks to all our dear RA family for your kind thoughts and expressions of welcome and concern during my weekend disappearance from the site! A big hug to all of you from me!
By Gigi on May 19th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Autumn looked wonderful. Peter is such a handsome and nice man. Good luck to them.
Poor Kate, she did not look very happy. William away at Jecca’s enjoying himself and much less stressful perhaps. . He does stay friends with his old girlfriends which is nice. He reminds me a bit of Pr. Charles in that way.
I don’t think Kate looked like a girl expecting an engagement soon she looked sad.
By j.b.h. on May 20th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Since Peter Phillips has no Royal title and no Royal duties I don’t see the bid fuss over Autumn Kelly selling the photo op to Hello.
By Carl Wickens on May 23rd, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Well, after the Hello! deal, I doubt that the Queen will ever offer any title to Peter Phillips, except perhaps a knighthood.
By Evelyn on May 23rd, 2008 at 11:12 pm
You may well be correct, Evelyn, but I still wish for Peter to be given a title by the Queen. Grandchildren of reigning sovereigns should be titled, in my view, and I do not like the fact that Peter and Zara are without titles. Oh, well, in the end it may prove to be a blessing in disguise. However, at the moment, it is very well disguised.
By Gigi on May 26th, 2008 at 2:51 am
I fear, Gigi, after the past month’s shenanigans, Peter will wait a long time for a title. Waity Pete, perhaps.
By John on May 26th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Are we certain that no title was ever offered to him? Remember that the Princess Royal didn’t want her children to have titles, and perhaps he doesn’t either.
By NCKat on May 26th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Gigi, from what I’ve learned about titles, Peter and Zara would not have been prince and princess unless the Queen granted those titles. Children of the sovereign’s sons are prince/ss at birth; children of the sovereign’s daughters are not. Had Princess Anne and Mark Phillips not intervened (so their children received no titles), they would have been Lord Peter Phillips and Lady Zara Phillips.
I’m finding all the twists and turns of titles fascinating.
By Evelyn on May 26th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
I recall that Prince Andrew, Duke of York, insisted on his and Sarah’s children being granted the title of Prince/Princess, so I assume that same title could have been given to Princess Anne’s son and daughter, and to the children of Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex. I believe that the Queen can grant whatever title she chooses, as long as it is within her gift. John feels that after the wedding contract with Hello fiasco, Peter will have to wait for a long time before he is ever offered a title by the Queen, if ever. I am inclined to agree that this scenario seems likely.
By Gigi on May 26th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Yes, the Queen could have granted whatever title she wished. If the usual way had stood, Princess Anne’s chidren would have been Lord and Lady.
If Peter at some point decides he’d like a title, he may need to wait until a new sovereign is on the throne. Or at least until he and Autumn produce the Queen’s first great-grandchildren.
Have other reigning monarchs been great-grandparents?
By Evelyn on May 27th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Certainly Queen Victoria was a great-grandmother.
By Robert on May 27th, 2008 at 3:47 am